At Home With’: Toni Newman Is Fighting for the Communities She Cares About April 17, 2023 – Posted in: Press

I shouldn’t have been nervous. Toni couldn’t have been more wonderful in our conversation for a recent At Home With Instagram Live for TheBody. She was warm, frank, passionate, and open-hearted. She came loaded with information, and her enthusiasm and love when talking about all the legal fights ahead inspired me.

This transcript has been edited for content and clarity.

Charles Sanchez: Toni, tell me about your position at NMAC as director of the Coalition for Justice and Equality Across Movements.

Toni Newman: Basically, this is a new division of NMAC under Paul Kawata. He’s been our CEO for 33 years. The HIV/AIDS community is getting attacked by so many states, [and so have the] LGBTQ and trans [communities]. It was decided that we, as the HIV/AIDS community—and NMAC works with lots of HIV/AIDS organizations throughout the United States—we can’t fight this alone. So we formed a coalition, and we invited CEOs from the NAACP, Urban League, housing, and civil rights [leaders] to come and talk.

It is a collaborative coalition between HIV and AIDS across the spectrum. And that’s why this started. We need support. So we need attorneys, and we brought in HRC [Human Rights Campaign] and Lambda Legal so that we can go into Tennessee and work with them on challenging the drag queen law. You can’t go to a drag show if you take your child. That’s unconstitutional. It’s illegal. You can’t dictate behavior. So, that’s what the coalition is really standing for: a collaborative force.

Sanchez: I think sometimes, like with the drag law specifically, which is utterly ridiculous, they’re making it sound like we’re taking children into sexual situations, dens of demonic sexuality, or whatever.

Newman: I’ve been a trans woman for almost 30 years. I’ve not recruited one person to be trans. It’s such a difficult journey with all the medical stuff that you have to do. I don’t have time to recruit anybody. It was so hard for me to do it. So where would I have time to go out and get followers to join me on a 28-year journey to be something that you are not authentically [as a cisgender person]? I don’t get it.

Sanchez: I totally agree with that, Toni, it’s ridiculous. And something I’ve been saying to the trans people that I meet, that I’m interviewing, is that [you’ve] had to go through such a journey to just discover who you are before any kind of medical treatment, before any kind of intervention that way, just to go like, “Hey, I’m in the wrong body. My outside doesn’t match my inside.” I can only imagine just that journey itself and what it takes to discover that authentic part of yourself.

Newman: You know, Charles, it took me 20 years after coming out of Wake Forest University with my first degree to have the courage to really step out and tell my colleagues at the community-college level—I was a supervisor and assistant to the dean—and my family. It took me 20 years just for Toni to admit and claim her authentic self. I don’t understand why they are attacking 1 million trans individuals in America because we are just trying to be our authentic selves and live. I don’t get why all of these attacks are coming our way. What do you want from such a small, marginalized community?

Sanchez: I wonder if it’s about “sin,” if there’s that element to it. But maybe they really believe that if they make gay people illegal again, if they make [being] trans illegal, that we will change.

Newman: We’re not going anywhere, Charles. That’s why we have a coalition. And that’s why Paul Kawata, my CEO, and I are ready to fight and to stand for equality across movements: abortion rights, women’s rights, minority rights, AIDS rights, trans rights, LGBT rights. You have a [human] right to have [quality] health care in America no matter who you are, who you have sex with, who you get in bed with. That’s nobody’s business to get good health care.

Sanchez: Absolutely. What are the first steps?

Newman: Reaching out to Urban League, civilrights.org, NAACP, Lambda Legal, HRC. We’re having Tuesday [and] Friday morning meetings with partners in Tennessee about what’s happening, where the governor rejected prevention dollars.

We’re meeting every Friday [to try] to work out solutions. We’re almost there. I can’t announce anything yet, but just because your governor says that you can’t get prevention doesn’t mean you can’t get prevention care. We are going to fight this thing. And even though the Supreme Court is highly Republican, and we may lose, we’re going to put up a hell of a fight to say, “This is not right. It’s not fair, it’s not equitable.” And we will fight this as a coalition with all of our partners, HRC, Lambda Legal, the gay groups, the straight groups, the Black groups, the Latinx groups, [and] the women groups. Because we’re all getting attacked in a different form, and we need each other.

Sanchez: The thing coming out of Tennessee with them refusing money, that seems ridiculous. But it really shocked me. I mean, I have a lot of friends who live in Tennessee, and I’ve visited Nashville and Memphis and the big cities. I just considered it to be a little bit more cosmopolitan than that.

Newman: Yeah, I’m not from Tennessee, but the governor there [has] really ramped up attacks against HIV and AIDS for prevention. And if we ever hope to get to ending the epidemic, the South has the highest numbers. He doesn’t realize his state is still producing numbers, so we need to work together to end this.

Sanchez: I really believe that when they make these kinds of laws, they’re really trying to attack gay people. Instead of attacking the virus [or] attacking the spread of this virus, they’re attacking what they think the “sin” is or whatever. It’s so old fashioned and not based on science.

Newman: We’ve already overcome all of this before. We won’t go back. So if that’s what the Tennessee legislators are thinking, we won’t go back without a fight. We just want what’s equitable and fair. I’m not asking you to believe in who I am [or] support who I am, but I’m a child of God and a human being, and I deserve respect. I give it, and I should get it. And it’s not for you to judge who and what I am. You are not perfect, and you’re definitely not God. So we’re all just creatures on this Earth trying to make it. I don’t know who’s a perfect person living a perfect life, but we’re just trying to make it. So, I just want him to realize we’re just people and we just want fairness and equality.

And we’re all created equal by God. Whether you’re Black, white, gay, straight, binary, nonbinary doesn’t matter. We’re all created by God. And God is a God of love. I’ve always believed that. I don’t think he’s a God of hate that goes around telling people to hurt each other and kill each other and climb through windows and bust windows. I’m a spiritual person, Charles. That’s just not where I’m going. I’m optimistic. I’m going to fight, and hopefully, we’ll come out as a winner on the other side. I believe that.

Sanchez: I’m glad you’re on my side because you sound like a really cool fighter.

Newman: Not just me, the whole NMAC machine with all of these other 30 organizations that we pulled together. We’re going to fight, and I’m not saying we’re going to win. I’m not saying we’re going to come out victorious, but we’re going to put up a hell of a fight to let you know we believe in equality. We believe in fairness for health care across the board. I’m not just fighting for the LGBTQ and trans [communities], I’m fighting for women, minorities, [and] immigrants [too]. I’m fighting for everybody. I’m an equal-opportunity collaborator. It’s who I am as a person and as a spiritual being. That’s where I’m coming from.

Sanchez: We can’t say that enough about housing. Housing is health care. Nutrition is health care.

Newman: I was just at AIDSWatch with AIDS United. We need to end the epidemic, but we have to take care of this half a million folks who’ve been living chronically with [HIV] for over 20, 30, 40 years. That’s our new demographics, and we’ve got to support them as well. And that’s what we were doing at the Hill with AIDSWatch this past weekend: telling them we need support. We need financial support to continue to fund Ryan White at a higher level and all of these other programs, [like] HOPWA [Housing Opportunities for Persons With AIDS]. We need to continue to care for our elders who I met, people from South Carolina [who are] 60 [years old] and 65 and 70. They’ve had it for 30 or 40 years. They need us. We cannot abandon them.

Sanchez: We are the first generation of people living with HIV for this long. And we still are learning about HIV.

Newman: You’ve been on one drug for 10 years, sometimes your resistance grows, [and] you [have to] get another drug. I mean, your body after 30 years is not gonna keep taking the same drug. It’s a difficult process. So, we [have to] stay ahead with the research and work with our elders over 50, as well as work with the young people and get them on PrEP. I don’t mind what you do, how many times you do it, where you do it. Just be safe.

Sanchez: We have so many tools when it comes to safety. We have PrEP, U=U, condoms, [and more]. The only tool that I don’t believe in is abstinence.

Newman: I’m not here to tell anyone, “You shouldn’t be doing this.” I’m not going to say that. But I’m going to say there are things out here. And if you don’t know what they are, reach out to Charles and I, [and we] will point you in the right direction. I’m a facilitator, an advocate. But I will point you to people who are your age, doing what you do, to make sure you get proper information from people who are living with it and thriving with it. I’m here to facilitate that. If you’re listening, just [email] TNewman@NMAC.org. I’ll respond immediately and put you in touch with the right folks that you can talk [to].

Sanchez: And it doesn’t matter what [or] where you are.

Newman: The community is NMAC and AIDS United and many other AIDS organizations. We’re not the only national group, there are others. But I’m more than happy to point you to the one in your state. You need some information? I’m here. I’m ready.

Sanchez: Tell me about the biomedical conference coming up.

Newman: The Biomedical Summit is in Las Vegas at the Cosmopolitan from April 11 to 12. I will be doing the afternoon plenary on that first day, talking about what’s happening in Tennessee and Texas. I’ve invited Kelley Robinson, the new president of HRC; [HIV Project director and lawyer] Jose Abrigo [from] Lambda Legal; [and Director of Evaluation and Strategic Initiatives] Cecilia Chung [from] the Trans Law Center.

[The executive director of Street Works in Tennessee,] Sharon Hurt, [is going] to tell us what’s happening and what she needs. So that’s my panel at 1 p.m. on April 11 at the Cosmo. We’re gonna be talking about what’s happening in Texas, what’s happening in Tennessee. We’ve also got a morning plenary talking about sex.

If you’re coming on April the 11th at one o’clock, I’m the afternoon plenary. Love to see you there. Learn how we’re gonna fight, because we’re gonna fight. We’re not gonna lay down, we’re not gonna do it. If they want to take us back, it’s gonna be a fight.

Sanchez: When we think of HIV, we think it’s a narrow scope, and it’s not. It’s a wide scope.

Newman: Let me repeat to everyone here. Women, Latinxs, and Blacks are getting [HIV], [and not all] are not gay. People are getting HIV in the South at high numbers. It’s not in a pigeonhole. So we want to work with women, we want to work with the HIV community and the LGBTQ community because Black women are leading this epidemic, with trans women of color. They’re leading the numbers here in the South. So we’re opening it up.

Sanchez: So someone just asked [in the chat], should the mayor or governor do more? Yes, absolutely. The mayor and the governor should do more. The mayor and the governor should be leaders in our community, for our community, because we’re people. And I think there’s not enough conversation in major media about HIV and about things that are affecting us, except when crazy laws are being bandied about and propositions for making drag queens illegal and things like that. But we don’t have enough results-oriented talk from major leaders about HIV and AIDS.

Newman: I agree with you totally, Charles. And that’s why I’m here. If you [are] in a state and you’re feeling this isn’t right, they’re just trying to pass a bill, let me know. That’s why we’re here—to partner with people in your state to fight it. Win or lose. We’re gonna draw the line and say, “We are here. We’re not gonna accept this just because you say this is what’s going to happen. We’re gonna fight.”

Sanchez: When you’ve been making these partnerships, a lot of the organizations that we’re talking about, they’re very liberal organizations.

Newman: I’m reaching out to religious organizations, pastors of huge churches who are very spiritual, Christianity. So I’m reaching across the board. And let me be clear. If you are not a liberal and you support this, you think some of this is wrong, I welcome you. This is not just for liberals. If you think this isn’t right, some of the things happening in America against trans [people], [people living with HIV], [the] LGBTQ [community], and women, we want to hear from you. This coalition is open to partners who want to work together. Whether you’re gay, straight, liberal, or not. If you are a Republican and you agree that we should be fighting, I would love to hear from you. I’m not saying that we’re just all liberals because I met someone who’s not a liberal and she’s like, “We’ll join.” Now, she’s not going to support every issue that I support, but we will unite on what we can and move forward. I don’t expect her to support everything I’m supporting, but what is it that you support, and what do you need from me? We are open to everyone who wants to support equal health care across the board for marginalized communities. That’s who’s going to get hurt in this fight. And [the trans community], a small 1-million–plus community, we don’t have enough power alone. So we need the LGBTQ community, we need women, we need help because there [are] over 300 laws attacking trans and LGBTQ in this country right now. I can’t be fighting all 300 laws by myself. I need help in the states. But I can work with you in your state [and ask], “What do you need from NMAC? What can we do to help push your equality agenda?”

Sanchez: I think that’s amazing and so important. One of the other things that I think about when it comes to these attacks that we’re getting is that the people that are attacking us want us eliminated. They really want us dead. They really want us to not just [have fewer] rights, but be not around. And you know, I don’t wish that on them.

Newman: I don’t want to go anywhere, but I’m not trying to get rid of you. What they do in their own homes is their business. But please don’t come into mine telling me how to live, where to go, how to walk, and how to talk. That’s just not right.

Sanchez: Or I can’t access health care or that I can’t access fair housing. It just makes me crazy when I think of them, especially because so many of them lean on “Christian.”

Newman: Charles, I was raised in the Christian Church—Pentecostal—for 18 years before I went to Wake Forest University. I was taught some of these things absolutely about this. Let me tell you what I’ve learned in my 30 years as a trans woman: God loves us all. We are created equally through God, by God. I’m a spiritual being. I believe good will beat evil every time. It may take a while, but I believe we can win. And I don’t think evil can continue to surge and be hateful and discriminatory. I’m optimistic and I’m hopeful, Charles. I could be living with blinders on. But I am hopeful that if we band together, all these groups and coalitions, we can stop some of this hate.

Stop this madness. This is crazy. You’re being discriminatory. I mean, go pray to your God and say, “God, is this the right way to go?” I don’t think a true God would say, “Go hurt Toni,” or “Go hurt Charles,” or “Go hurt this group of people that you don’t even know.” And if [anyone listening has] questions about trans experience, I’m open to having a conversation with you to explain what it is.

Maybe you don’t know, [or] maybe you are fearful and you’ve been told something inaccurate. I’ve been living it for 30 years. I’m thriving, I’m doing well. I pay taxes. I hurt nobody. I love everybody. I give and get respect. Come talk to me. If you want some education and enlightenment, I believe I can help you with why I did this. Who am I? Why did I go from this to that? I’m open. As long as you’re respectful to me, I will give you the conversation and accept your conversation. And we don’t have to agree, but at least we can have a conversation. I think communication is the key here, Charles. Let’s communicate about what you’re ignorant of. And maybe you’ll learn something. Be like, why am I attacking these people? Why am I doing this? This is not right because you’re hurting people.

Sanchez: You just might change your mind.

Newman: I’ll give it a try as long as they’re respectful. Now, I don’t engage in word shaming and fighting. Once we can’t talk in a respectful manner, I then dismiss myself and say, obviously you don’t want to hear what I have to say. You’ve already judged me. God bless you and I’ll let you go now. And you can call names and all of that to someone else. You won’t do it to me. And that happens sometimes. You get in a conversation and [someone says], “Oh, you’re going to hell.” When did God appoint you the savior to judge me? I don’t think you can judge me, and I can’t judge you because none of us are perfect. I’m just doing the best I can every day. That’s all we can do.

Sanchez: Is there anything else that you want to make sure and say or include?

Newman: Please go to NMAC.org to find out about the National Minority AIDS Council. We have two summits. We’re having the Biomedical Summit. We’re having USCHA [U.S. Conference on HIV and AIDS], the biggest AIDS conference in the [country], in September. We were just in Puerto Rico last year. We’re in D.C. this year. You [can] submit abstracts, attend, apply for scholarships. Go to NMAC.org, join the newsletter. You can be kept abreast of what we’re doing at the coalition. And if you have any questions about HIV, NMAC is here for you. We’re here to support you in any way we can, and we love you. And hopefully, it’ll be a better day tomorrow if today’s not a good day. Because not every day’s a good day. So hang in there.

To contact Toni Newman, email tnewman@nmac.org. For more information on the coalition, the Biomedical Summit, USCHA, or any of the work NMAC does, visit their website, NMAC.org.